South Dakota Voices Response: Sal, thank you for joining the discussion. It is interesting that Former Governor Noem is head of Homeland Security, yet she signed contracts to take refugees and appears to have turned a blind eye to illegal immigrants in the state. What organizations (individuals) benefited from her policies? A look at the costs of health and human services, housing, food, etc. makes it appear that the taxpayers were the losers in this game.
Email comment from SW: "Maybe Noem should clean up her own back yard?"
South Dakota Voices Response: Debbie, thank you for joining the conversation and expressing your concern. The posts are designed to encourage discussion. Much of the content in this post is focused how the current system takes advantage of people. Is there something inaccurate in the post? If so, please tell us specifically so we can discuss the issues.
Email comment from DW: "Are you Christians? You seen to thrive on hate."
Our experience and it may have changed: This is concerning because for refuges, in the county they may have come from, a huge status symbol is if one owns a vehicle. Most have not nor ever driven if from large city populations or tribal/rural areas. BUT, they go to the local meat packing job and are shown how easy it is to get a car. The money is taken out right through their paychecks. So, these vulnerable people see this big check $ and for only a ($250 for example) they can get a car. It’s handled right through work and the credit Union. We were shocked to see a family we were mentoring drive up in a car! They’ve never driven! And we had to tell them about open container!!! They are even further in indebtedness.
Is it possible the company wants their employees in debt and prefers people who do not speak the language, because it makes it harder for them to find other employment (tightens the bond of indentured servitude)? Could it also be that they show up to work more regularly if they have a car. Sadly, the employer does not have any incentive to treat these people well, because the taxpayers handle medical care, subsidized food, subsidized housing, extra stipends, etc.
South Dakota Voices Response: Thank you for joining the conversation. In South Dakota, LSS appears to be the primary NGO. If anyone has information to suggest otherwise, please post it here.
Email comment from PW: "Is this LSS or Catholic NGO?"
South Dakota Voices Response: Cassandra, thank you for sharing your experience. If we all share our experiences, we better understand the problem and can work toward a solution.
Email comment from CS: "Spot on. My daughter lives in Aberdeen. Her and her husband moved into one of the newer apartment complexes. It is filled with people who do not speak english. It did not take them long to learn they could not use the patio, as every day the people in the apt above peed off their patio, which sprayed all over hers. They complained to management again and again, documented everything....but NOTHING!! The apartment owners said they could NOT do anything about it. Disgusting. They had mail stolen constantly and just never felt safe....finally, they had to break their lease and move. Not safe for a young couple to live there. Crazy."
I have never understood the problem. If you are here legally, then we are a nation of laws, follow them and welcome. If you are not here legally then we are a nation of laws and you have to leave now. The whole politically connected democrat's get a free pass is another issue.
I am so in agreement Tom. We have so many US citizens struggling today that have worked their entire lives to stay afloat. And now we are to support non US citizens. What’s wrong with this picture??????
It seems that the problem is not limited to illegal immigrants. Even the ones that are here legally are creating a severe load on the taxpayers (free medical care, housing subsidies, subsidized transportation, subsidized food, cash handouts). Also, the immigrants lower wages which means citizens are making less money. When we have citizens that are struggling, is it reasonable to bring people in that make the lives of citizens worse?
I have not heard of legal immigrants with that attitude. I have known four families, two Brazilians, Canadian, Indian, and they all want to get to work, they want to make themselves successful. From my experience this is a made up situation. What are the statistics on this.
Illegals are not pushing down wages, with a minimum wage law that notion makes no sense. If you mean people that take a lower wage and get paid under the table, that happens all the time and has for decades. Difference is someone that knows what is going on and is avoiding taxes is not being exploited, because they know what is going on before hand and accepted the deal. An illegal that probably does not know the languages and laws of this country is getting exploited, little more than slave labor. Is that why the democrats let the boarder open, they want their slaves back? Plus there is the fact that a small amount of illegal's are taking these underpaid jobs, 3% is one stat I have heard. Most of them are in the big cities sucking up welfare. Every cent of the Biden and Harris personal worth should be seized to help pay for sending them back.
Real wage drop has nothing to do with foreign workers, another notion that makes no sense. Real wage drop is the comparison of the rise in inflation to the rise in wages. Inflation comes from two sources. First, DC printing money out of thin air. The value of the dollar is not just the faith and trust in the US government, as printed on the monopoly money we call dollars. The value also comes from how many of those dollars are in circulation. The more dollars the less they are worth. An analogy would be leaves on trees. Why are they worth nothing, because there are lots of them. Same for the dollar and real wage drop.
The second driver in real wage drop is the minimum wage. This forces more money into the economy and lowers the value of the dollar. Both from the entry level wages and the high scale union wages that have caveats in their contracts that their wages will always be a certain percentage or amount above minimum wage. In turn minimum wage increases put a real squeeze on non-union and self employed that do not get a pay raise but get the higher prices forced by increased minimum wage.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It would be nice if you could provide some data. Both my personal data and the data sources I use suggest there is a significant problem. The inflation increase since the late 80s is about 2.4 times. To cover that rise, wages have to rise about 2.4 times to cover. That means an engineer, for example, that started at $60K would now have to be starting at $144. That isn't happening (a starting salary of 80K is very good). Try same the comparison with other majors. For engineers, check how H1Bs are used to depress wages. We are told it is because there aren't people to take the jobs. This is not really true. Companies intentionally advertise at lower wages and say there aren't enough applicants to justify foreign workers.
The data is easy, just follow the rise in government spending and minimum wages they collate directly. The economic recovery plan that put $350 billion into the economy cause the 9% inflation that followed. It was also not the economic recovery bill, it was the green raw deal in disguise, as the criminal Joe Biden admitted later.
As for blaming companies for trying to hire employees for less, well yes, they are in business to make money and the payroll is the biggest expense. Profit is not a dirty word, after all that is what minimum wage is all about. Thanks to unabated government spending and constant raising of minimum wages Engineers, and others, need to make more to maintain the life styles they worked hard to get. At the same time companies need to meet bottom lines on expenses, and profits, this is basic economics in a free trade system. Employees and companies do not control how much money DC prints or what they do with the out of control minimum wage. They are not the bad guys here.
Refugees coming through a program should have a sponsor unless the program is inept. If the program is inept, it should be discontinued. I would certainly hope that Governor Noem wouldn't have agreed to have our state participate in a defective program because that would be unthinkably stupid. If that happened, our state should withdraw. The question we need to answer is, "How Christian are we?" The answer to that question directs what we should do.
That's a problem in itself. As the past four years have taught us. The taxpayers can no longer be expected to pay for these programs. Part of the Visa application process includes that the applicant provides a means of financial support. Through their own financial net worth or through a financial sponsor. Organizations such as Lutheran Services and Catholic Charity provide such sponsorship however, I believe that they also tap into federal funds for support. Also, proper vetting has diminished allowing many to freely enter that in the past would have been rejected. My response to those who find that to be uncaring is to suggest that they become a sponsor for immigrants to do their part. I have been through the process.
Thank you for the insightful comment. The problem appears to have been going on for a long time - under Democrat and Republican administrations. Sadly even with sponsors, the corporations are using these immigrants to depress wages for everyone (citizens too) and all the extra costs are transferred to the taxpayers (citizens that are now under the poverty line and the newcomers that can't get by on what they are being paid).
Using people towards one's own selfish ends is simply wrong, it degrades all of society.
People are motivated by incentives, these externalities drive our decisions as individuals and corporations, these are basic. Being drawn to the US for a better life and arriving only to learn you are at bottom of the social structure, yes I'm paint with a broad brush here. Overall I think it is true, look at the schools in SD ~12% of children are in english as a second language, now lets assume neither of their parents speaks english well. Non-native english speaker, low education levels, as the article suggest, this is a new hybrid worker indentured laborers.
Sure, other than horrible cases such as leaving a war torn region or an area controlled by murderess cartels, the immigrants are here as economic refugees. (think about how useless the UN is epic failure in helping peoples and nations)
Let's disincentive the structure of the burden on the tax payer, in general everyone.
2014 Forbs story reported that Walmart workers cost taxpayers $6.2 billion as they and others; McDonalds have workers paid wages that are insufficient to meet their basic needs.
Let's remove this incentive, one way, increase minimum wage to $17.00/hr, there's good reasons not to take this approach.
I'd like to see a strategy where underpaid workers at these corporations are cross checked for benefits received. The government knows who's getting benefits, they also know what your income is and who your employer(s) are, at the end of the year Walmart can be told. "your workers consumed $8 Billion in benefits" pay the US treasury. I think this would bring changes, the burden falls right in the lap of corporations that pay folks less than a living threshold.
At the same time offer tax credits to companies that pay living wages, meaning their employees are not living on movement programs.
I think this should be started on a few pilot programs around the country, Universities and branches of OMB can work together to evaluate if the objectives are achievable, once it is refined it can be voted on.
You make the claim that "A number have gang affiliations" but if you actually read the article you linked, it proves nothing of the sort. These refugees are fleeing from gang violence and instability. You completely misrepresented the article.
Thank you. You are correct this article does did not do a very good job of quantifying the problem. The people that are leaving are often part of the gangs too (become part of the gangs during the journey). Here is another one. I updated the link in the article as well.
South Dakota Voices Response: Sal, thank you for joining the discussion. It is interesting that Former Governor Noem is head of Homeland Security, yet she signed contracts to take refugees and appears to have turned a blind eye to illegal immigrants in the state. What organizations (individuals) benefited from her policies? A look at the costs of health and human services, housing, food, etc. makes it appear that the taxpayers were the losers in this game.
Email comment from SW: "Maybe Noem should clean up her own back yard?"
South Dakota Voices Response: Debbie, thank you for joining the conversation and expressing your concern. The posts are designed to encourage discussion. Much of the content in this post is focused how the current system takes advantage of people. Is there something inaccurate in the post? If so, please tell us specifically so we can discuss the issues.
Email comment from DW: "Are you Christians? You seen to thrive on hate."
Our experience and it may have changed: This is concerning because for refuges, in the county they may have come from, a huge status symbol is if one owns a vehicle. Most have not nor ever driven if from large city populations or tribal/rural areas. BUT, they go to the local meat packing job and are shown how easy it is to get a car. The money is taken out right through their paychecks. So, these vulnerable people see this big check $ and for only a ($250 for example) they can get a car. It’s handled right through work and the credit Union. We were shocked to see a family we were mentoring drive up in a car! They’ve never driven! And we had to tell them about open container!!! They are even further in indebtedness.
Is it possible the company wants their employees in debt and prefers people who do not speak the language, because it makes it harder for them to find other employment (tightens the bond of indentured servitude)? Could it also be that they show up to work more regularly if they have a car. Sadly, the employer does not have any incentive to treat these people well, because the taxpayers handle medical care, subsidized food, subsidized housing, extra stipends, etc.
South Dakota Voices Response: Thank you for joining the conversation. In South Dakota, LSS appears to be the primary NGO. If anyone has information to suggest otherwise, please post it here.
Email comment from PW: "Is this LSS or Catholic NGO?"
South Dakota Voices Response: Cassandra, thank you for sharing your experience. If we all share our experiences, we better understand the problem and can work toward a solution.
Email comment from CS: "Spot on. My daughter lives in Aberdeen. Her and her husband moved into one of the newer apartment complexes. It is filled with people who do not speak english. It did not take them long to learn they could not use the patio, as every day the people in the apt above peed off their patio, which sprayed all over hers. They complained to management again and again, documented everything....but NOTHING!! The apartment owners said they could NOT do anything about it. Disgusting. They had mail stolen constantly and just never felt safe....finally, they had to break their lease and move. Not safe for a young couple to live there. Crazy."
I have never understood the problem. If you are here legally, then we are a nation of laws, follow them and welcome. If you are not here legally then we are a nation of laws and you have to leave now. The whole politically connected democrat's get a free pass is another issue.
I am so in agreement Tom. We have so many US citizens struggling today that have worked their entire lives to stay afloat. And now we are to support non US citizens. What’s wrong with this picture??????
It seems that the problem is not limited to illegal immigrants. Even the ones that are here legally are creating a severe load on the taxpayers (free medical care, housing subsidies, subsidized transportation, subsidized food, cash handouts). Also, the immigrants lower wages which means citizens are making less money. When we have citizens that are struggling, is it reasonable to bring people in that make the lives of citizens worse?
I have not heard of legal immigrants with that attitude. I have known four families, two Brazilians, Canadian, Indian, and they all want to get to work, they want to make themselves successful. From my experience this is a made up situation. What are the statistics on this.
Illegals are not pushing down wages, with a minimum wage law that notion makes no sense. If you mean people that take a lower wage and get paid under the table, that happens all the time and has for decades. Difference is someone that knows what is going on and is avoiding taxes is not being exploited, because they know what is going on before hand and accepted the deal. An illegal that probably does not know the languages and laws of this country is getting exploited, little more than slave labor. Is that why the democrats let the boarder open, they want their slaves back? Plus there is the fact that a small amount of illegal's are taking these underpaid jobs, 3% is one stat I have heard. Most of them are in the big cities sucking up welfare. Every cent of the Biden and Harris personal worth should be seized to help pay for sending them back.
It is interesting to observe the real wage drop over the last 30 years (adjusted for inflation). Foreign workers are used to drop real wages.
https://cis.org/Oped/Evidence-shows-immigration-reduces-wages-significantly
Real wage drop has nothing to do with foreign workers, another notion that makes no sense. Real wage drop is the comparison of the rise in inflation to the rise in wages. Inflation comes from two sources. First, DC printing money out of thin air. The value of the dollar is not just the faith and trust in the US government, as printed on the monopoly money we call dollars. The value also comes from how many of those dollars are in circulation. The more dollars the less they are worth. An analogy would be leaves on trees. Why are they worth nothing, because there are lots of them. Same for the dollar and real wage drop.
The second driver in real wage drop is the minimum wage. This forces more money into the economy and lowers the value of the dollar. Both from the entry level wages and the high scale union wages that have caveats in their contracts that their wages will always be a certain percentage or amount above minimum wage. In turn minimum wage increases put a real squeeze on non-union and self employed that do not get a pay raise but get the higher prices forced by increased minimum wage.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It would be nice if you could provide some data. Both my personal data and the data sources I use suggest there is a significant problem. The inflation increase since the late 80s is about 2.4 times. To cover that rise, wages have to rise about 2.4 times to cover. That means an engineer, for example, that started at $60K would now have to be starting at $144. That isn't happening (a starting salary of 80K is very good). Try same the comparison with other majors. For engineers, check how H1Bs are used to depress wages. We are told it is because there aren't people to take the jobs. This is not really true. Companies intentionally advertise at lower wages and say there aren't enough applicants to justify foreign workers.
The data is easy, just follow the rise in government spending and minimum wages they collate directly. The economic recovery plan that put $350 billion into the economy cause the 9% inflation that followed. It was also not the economic recovery bill, it was the green raw deal in disguise, as the criminal Joe Biden admitted later.
As for blaming companies for trying to hire employees for less, well yes, they are in business to make money and the payroll is the biggest expense. Profit is not a dirty word, after all that is what minimum wage is all about. Thanks to unabated government spending and constant raising of minimum wages Engineers, and others, need to make more to maintain the life styles they worked hard to get. At the same time companies need to meet bottom lines on expenses, and profits, this is basic economics in a free trade system. Employees and companies do not control how much money DC prints or what they do with the out of control minimum wage. They are not the bad guys here.
It would be incredibly stupid to participate in that type of program.
Yes
Refugees coming through a program should have a sponsor unless the program is inept. If the program is inept, it should be discontinued. I would certainly hope that Governor Noem wouldn't have agreed to have our state participate in a defective program because that would be unthinkably stupid. If that happened, our state should withdraw. The question we need to answer is, "How Christian are we?" The answer to that question directs what we should do.
Some of the programs do not require sponsorship.
That's a problem in itself. As the past four years have taught us. The taxpayers can no longer be expected to pay for these programs. Part of the Visa application process includes that the applicant provides a means of financial support. Through their own financial net worth or through a financial sponsor. Organizations such as Lutheran Services and Catholic Charity provide such sponsorship however, I believe that they also tap into federal funds for support. Also, proper vetting has diminished allowing many to freely enter that in the past would have been rejected. My response to those who find that to be uncaring is to suggest that they become a sponsor for immigrants to do their part. I have been through the process.
Thank you for the insightful comment. The problem appears to have been going on for a long time - under Democrat and Republican administrations. Sadly even with sponsors, the corporations are using these immigrants to depress wages for everyone (citizens too) and all the extra costs are transferred to the taxpayers (citizens that are now under the poverty line and the newcomers that can't get by on what they are being paid).
The stupid shit this site pukes out is worse the most moronic social media posts
It’s not as stupid as the fact that Larry TCUTA. And you do it enthusiastically every day!!
Using people towards one's own selfish ends is simply wrong, it degrades all of society.
People are motivated by incentives, these externalities drive our decisions as individuals and corporations, these are basic. Being drawn to the US for a better life and arriving only to learn you are at bottom of the social structure, yes I'm paint with a broad brush here. Overall I think it is true, look at the schools in SD ~12% of children are in english as a second language, now lets assume neither of their parents speaks english well. Non-native english speaker, low education levels, as the article suggest, this is a new hybrid worker indentured laborers.
Sure, other than horrible cases such as leaving a war torn region or an area controlled by murderess cartels, the immigrants are here as economic refugees. (think about how useless the UN is epic failure in helping peoples and nations)
Let's disincentive the structure of the burden on the tax payer, in general everyone.
2014 Forbs story reported that Walmart workers cost taxpayers $6.2 billion as they and others; McDonalds have workers paid wages that are insufficient to meet their basic needs.
Let's remove this incentive, one way, increase minimum wage to $17.00/hr, there's good reasons not to take this approach.
I'd like to see a strategy where underpaid workers at these corporations are cross checked for benefits received. The government knows who's getting benefits, they also know what your income is and who your employer(s) are, at the end of the year Walmart can be told. "your workers consumed $8 Billion in benefits" pay the US treasury. I think this would bring changes, the burden falls right in the lap of corporations that pay folks less than a living threshold.
At the same time offer tax credits to companies that pay living wages, meaning their employees are not living on movement programs.
I think this should be started on a few pilot programs around the country, Universities and branches of OMB can work together to evaluate if the objectives are achievable, once it is refined it can be voted on.
You make the claim that "A number have gang affiliations" but if you actually read the article you linked, it proves nothing of the sort. These refugees are fleeing from gang violence and instability. You completely misrepresented the article.
Thank you. You are correct this article does did not do a very good job of quantifying the problem. The people that are leaving are often part of the gangs too (become part of the gangs during the journey). Here is another one. I updated the link in the article as well.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/dhs-identified-600-migrants-possible-ties-venezuelan-gang-rcna176020