South Dakota Voices Response: Gervase, thank you for joining the conversation.
Email comment from GH: "I’m a Professor emeritus from USD. Not just more pay, but bargaining power, ie., union, regents who actually support public education, who protect academic freedom for teachers and students, a Department of Education that fights against the Administration creating and determining curriculum. And that’s a start"
What would happen if you gave every child $10,000 to use on private schools/home/virtual and got rid of public? You’d save half a billion annually that could go to property tax relief & the kids would get better education & teachers would get paid more. The free market would absolutely thrive in the edu dept. Money should follow the child. It’s the only way we’ll ever move forward in education. Follow South Dakotans for School Choice if you’re interested in our adventures!
Well, that explains part of the high cost per student per year for public education. We should all keep that in mind as the legislative session rolls around and we, once again, hear laments over the lack of money for education. 🤨
The only thing that would happen is that teachers would be paid more, and taxes would be higher to fund the increase. More pay would make no difference in the quality of teaching provided or the amount of learning achieved. The money would be far better spent on teacher education. What is taught in university education degree programs (and yes, I went through one) is the bare minimum. Teachers are rated as 'highly qualified' by the degree they achieve or a test they take showing their content knowledge. Neither assesses their ability to teach effectively. We don't need teachers who are highly qualified as much as we need teachers who are highly effective, meaning the STUDENTS test scores matter much more than the teachers' test scores.
First, no you wouldn’t produce better teachers and better grades if their pay were better. If that were the case Wyoming schools would always outperform SD schools. They are ranked almost identically. Wyoming only having better facilities.
Second, parents are the key to better education results.
Increased teacher pay does not directly correlate to increased student productivity. Look to the disaster with the Minnesota public school system. They have had some of the highest cost per student for decades, yet their ranking has continued to fall. Teachers unions in Minnesota have destroyed the quality of public education. The curriculum is the biggest factor in the quality of education. Remove all of the Woke nonsense and stick with the basics of education. Categorize the students within their learning abilities. This allows the top performing students to advance per their speed of learning and the lower performing students to receive the individual attention they require. The use of vouchers for school choice is the best tool to allow and provide the best education for students. I'm not sure how one chose 30 years for the estimated life of a school building.
Thank you Paul for sharing your thoughts. Singapore pays teacher well and combines the base pay with performance standards and bonuses. They have very high student outcomes.
Yes, bonus based upon performance could be an option. However, poor student performance is not 100% based upon the teacher. Like most everything, student and child behavior starts in the home. Singapore has a very different culture than the USA. 100% of the students there go to school to learn and with the mindset to be the best in their class. This is where the idea of student performance-based classrooms typically makes for an improved and better manageable learning experience.
I should add, you don't have these issues in private schools because the students go there to learn. Students who are either disruptive or don't perform well are weeded out. Teacher bonus programs are much more effective.
For at least the past decade many public schools have taken to approach to lower the standards as a method to improve student performance and graduation rates. This solves nothing except on paper by producing false results, wasting tax dollars and idiocracy within our children.
Again, look at the Minnesota public schools as an example. Primarily those in Minneapolis and St. Paul.
Would it help if companies who bring workers in on foreign worker visa programs had to pay for the education of the children for the workers on these programs? I have heard many of these children have language and academic issues that create challenges for the schools. In the past corporations that brought in foreign workers had to provide education, housing, and medical care for the workers and their families.
My personal opinion is the anyone not paying taxes for use of public education should not be allowed free public education. It's quite basic in my mind. The student should also be required be at the grade level they are admitted to as well as speck fluent English. If they sent their child to a private school they would need to adhere to those conditions. Why not for public school.
These situations of having to deal with children with language barriers and academic issues places a great strain on not only the teachers but other students and the entire system as well.
I have spent much time in SE Asia and actually lived there so I have some exposure and knowledge with their school systems. Every school has some level of tuition. They also require uniforms and hair cut standards. Unfortunately, many poor families can't afford to send all of their children to school.
Like I say, behavior starts in the home. Teachers should not be expected to deal with behavioral issues. They are there to teach. If the school district wants to allow the teachers to have a part in enforcing discipline, then that needs to be communicated and agreed upon by all. When I attended school, the students obeyed and were there to learn. Unfortunately, that isn't the norm today.
Teacher have TONS of money ....it just doesn't get filtered down to them...administration gets it all and the dregs get passed out to the teachers. The legislature give TONS of increases to the schools...but they don't give it to the teachers....they give it to administration. Look it up...10 years ago when I was in the legislature SD teachers were 49th for pay nationwide...and our administrators were 24th in the nation. Add that to the fact that the good old boy system in schools hand out "administration" jobs like candy....and we pay for all those useless positions. ITs a beautiful scheme...keep the peon teacher poor and screaming for more money and then when its arrives give it to "administration"
Possibly limit superintendent and administrators pay so it cannot be more than a certain percentage more than the base teacher salary? When I heard how much the Sioux Falls Superintendent gets paid I was flabbergasted! No reason for that.
Better pay? Absolutely needed - not just in South Dakota but across the nation. What other profession do you know of where an employee is expected to provide so much equipment for their job out of their own pocket year in and year out?
Less buildings? - the kids are packed in like sardines as is. The reason JHS exists is that class sizes when there were only 3 public high schools in town was approaching 40 students per teacher. No teacher could accomplish much with that many kids at once.
Maybe I am missing something. The Jefferson High School campus is 327,000 square feet. There are 1750 students and around 200 staff members. That is 186 square feet per person. Which works out to a room that is about 14 ft x 14 ft per person. That means each student has an area bigger than my living room.
South Dakota Voices Response: Gervase, thank you for joining the conversation.
Email comment from GH: "I’m a Professor emeritus from USD. Not just more pay, but bargaining power, ie., union, regents who actually support public education, who protect academic freedom for teachers and students, a Department of Education that fights against the Administration creating and determining curriculum. And that’s a start"
What would happen if you gave every child $10,000 to use on private schools/home/virtual and got rid of public? You’d save half a billion annually that could go to property tax relief & the kids would get better education & teachers would get paid more. The free market would absolutely thrive in the edu dept. Money should follow the child. It’s the only way we’ll ever move forward in education. Follow South Dakotans for School Choice if you’re interested in our adventures!
Could you please share the link with us?
https://www.facebook.com/share/7TXBaKEknD322qSz/?mibextid=K35XfP
Well, that explains part of the high cost per student per year for public education. We should all keep that in mind as the legislative session rolls around and we, once again, hear laments over the lack of money for education. 🤨
The only thing that would happen is that teachers would be paid more, and taxes would be higher to fund the increase. More pay would make no difference in the quality of teaching provided or the amount of learning achieved. The money would be far better spent on teacher education. What is taught in university education degree programs (and yes, I went through one) is the bare minimum. Teachers are rated as 'highly qualified' by the degree they achieve or a test they take showing their content knowledge. Neither assesses their ability to teach effectively. We don't need teachers who are highly qualified as much as we need teachers who are highly effective, meaning the STUDENTS test scores matter much more than the teachers' test scores.
Thanks for the comment and your discussion of "effective".
First, no you wouldn’t produce better teachers and better grades if their pay were better. If that were the case Wyoming schools would always outperform SD schools. They are ranked almost identically. Wyoming only having better facilities.
Second, parents are the key to better education results.
Increased teacher pay does not directly correlate to increased student productivity. Look to the disaster with the Minnesota public school system. They have had some of the highest cost per student for decades, yet their ranking has continued to fall. Teachers unions in Minnesota have destroyed the quality of public education. The curriculum is the biggest factor in the quality of education. Remove all of the Woke nonsense and stick with the basics of education. Categorize the students within their learning abilities. This allows the top performing students to advance per their speed of learning and the lower performing students to receive the individual attention they require. The use of vouchers for school choice is the best tool to allow and provide the best education for students. I'm not sure how one chose 30 years for the estimated life of a school building.
Thank you Paul for sharing your thoughts. Singapore pays teacher well and combines the base pay with performance standards and bonuses. They have very high student outcomes.
https://www.google.com/search?q=singapore+teacher+pay&oq=singapore+teacher+pay&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyCQgAEEUYORiABDIHCAEQABiABDIICAIQABgWGB4yCAgDEAAYFhgeMggIBBAAGBYYHjIICAUQABgWGB4yCAgGEAAYFhgeMggIBxAAGBYYHjIICAgQABgWGB4yCAgJEAAYFhge0gEJMTA0OThqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Yes, bonus based upon performance could be an option. However, poor student performance is not 100% based upon the teacher. Like most everything, student and child behavior starts in the home. Singapore has a very different culture than the USA. 100% of the students there go to school to learn and with the mindset to be the best in their class. This is where the idea of student performance-based classrooms typically makes for an improved and better manageable learning experience.
How can we best solve this problem?
I should add, you don't have these issues in private schools because the students go there to learn. Students who are either disruptive or don't perform well are weeded out. Teacher bonus programs are much more effective.
For at least the past decade many public schools have taken to approach to lower the standards as a method to improve student performance and graduation rates. This solves nothing except on paper by producing false results, wasting tax dollars and idiocracy within our children.
Again, look at the Minnesota public schools as an example. Primarily those in Minneapolis and St. Paul.
Would it help if companies who bring workers in on foreign worker visa programs had to pay for the education of the children for the workers on these programs? I have heard many of these children have language and academic issues that create challenges for the schools. In the past corporations that brought in foreign workers had to provide education, housing, and medical care for the workers and their families.
My personal opinion is the anyone not paying taxes for use of public education should not be allowed free public education. It's quite basic in my mind. The student should also be required be at the grade level they are admitted to as well as speck fluent English. If they sent their child to a private school they would need to adhere to those conditions. Why not for public school.
These situations of having to deal with children with language barriers and academic issues places a great strain on not only the teachers but other students and the entire system as well.
I have spent much time in SE Asia and actually lived there so I have some exposure and knowledge with their school systems. Every school has some level of tuition. They also require uniforms and hair cut standards. Unfortunately, many poor families can't afford to send all of their children to school.
Which problem? Student behavior?
Like I say, behavior starts in the home. Teachers should not be expected to deal with behavioral issues. They are there to teach. If the school district wants to allow the teachers to have a part in enforcing discipline, then that needs to be communicated and agreed upon by all. When I attended school, the students obeyed and were there to learn. Unfortunately, that isn't the norm today.
Teacher have TONS of money ....it just doesn't get filtered down to them...administration gets it all and the dregs get passed out to the teachers. The legislature give TONS of increases to the schools...but they don't give it to the teachers....they give it to administration. Look it up...10 years ago when I was in the legislature SD teachers were 49th for pay nationwide...and our administrators were 24th in the nation. Add that to the fact that the good old boy system in schools hand out "administration" jobs like candy....and we pay for all those useless positions. ITs a beautiful scheme...keep the peon teacher poor and screaming for more money and then when its arrives give it to "administration"
How could we change the equation?
Possibly limit superintendent and administrators pay so it cannot be more than a certain percentage more than the base teacher salary? When I heard how much the Sioux Falls Superintendent gets paid I was flabbergasted! No reason for that.
Better pay? Absolutely needed - not just in South Dakota but across the nation. What other profession do you know of where an employee is expected to provide so much equipment for their job out of their own pocket year in and year out?
Less buildings? - the kids are packed in like sardines as is. The reason JHS exists is that class sizes when there were only 3 public high schools in town was approaching 40 students per teacher. No teacher could accomplish much with that many kids at once.
Maybe I am missing something. The Jefferson High School campus is 327,000 square feet. There are 1750 students and around 200 staff members. That is 186 square feet per person. Which works out to a room that is about 14 ft x 14 ft per person. That means each student has an area bigger than my living room.