South Dakota Voices Response: Kurt, thank you for joining the conversation.
Email comment from KT: "JUST TEACH THE KIDS! IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT, OR DO YOU NEED A DOLLAR WAVED IN FRONT OF YOU TO DO IT?! NOW I CAN SEE WHY SOME HOME SCHOOL...LESS DRAMA. But what do I know."
South Dakota Voices Response: Larry, thank you for joining the discussion and sharing your thoughts.
Email comment from LW: "Change we must, if legislators were Board of Directors for a Corporation that continued to spend $ and was loosing money (FAILURE), they would change or be OUT. Change the process !"
I am not sure how places that are hiring foreign workers are hiring becuase they could get them because of cheaap wages. I think it is because most Ssouth Dakota and the out of state people moving here will not do those jobs. Being a rural person, Ii am not seeing many locals and transplants wanting to work in the dairy barns, hog houses, poultry farms, slaughter houses. I am not sure somee if not most would work there if they made $53,277 to $57,503 averagee salary that teachers make in SD.
Until we become a country that limits how many children that minority population may have and the caucasian population decides to have big families again, whicch couldd happen in the next 44 years, even thhen we still will have to educate all children.
Noem pushed private education. Curious as to why? Her home school district is probalby 98% caucasian but there is a religious faction. Is that the reason? Or is that her family is considering selling to a 15,000 dairy heard that will need to hire those darn foreigners to work. Maybe it is the Cheese Plant that already employs those darn foreigners.
But the you keep saying many people want. What does the majority want? I am sure these legisllaators are hearing from them also.
Private schools tend to have parents that are more involved and also get to pick which kids they allow into their schools. They do not have to take ones with special needs, disciplinary problems or non English speakers. All these add more money to our public school system because it requires more staff to deal with these students. These children deserve to be taught so instead of continually trying to syphon money off to private schools (where they can pick out all the well behaved students with parents who care about their education) invest the money needed to have the proper staff required. Smaller class sizes would help. Volunteers that can go in and help read with kids that are struggling might help too. Lastly remember that parents are a child's first teacher and the more a parent can read to a young child the better they will learn. Also, if they can't read at a 3rd grade level by the time they are done with 3rd grade they either need to do summer school or repeat the grade. Teachers are always under pressure to keep passing kids onto the next day even though they can't pass the current grade standards. That's how we get kids graduating that can't read yet. Maybe more would buckle down and do their homework if they knew they could be held back.
I agree the problem with foreign workers (language and academic preparation) is real. If companies took care of all these costs like did earlier in the life of our country rather than trying to shift them to the taxpayer, many of the problems would go away. Do you think there should be legislation that makes companies pay these costs?
They've tried to get bills passed to allow kids to leave but they usually lobby against it and defeat them. SB 71 this year is probably going to pass, it allows 16 year olds to take the GED if they have no reasonable way of earningrequired credits, and it allows 17 year olds to leave school if consent by parent is received.
I disagree with the comment about reading at a 3rd grade level by the end of 3rd grade. Some kids really do need more time! Most kids are only 8 or 9 years old at that point...I've heard stories of the ability to read not really "clicking" until 10 yrs or so. My point of reference is home education though, so you already have parents working with and invested in their child's success. Those kids are given the time they need to learn without being stigmatized or pressured. (although I'm sure the parents are stressed...it's hard to be patient with everyone breathing down your neck!) I wish the public school system could find a way to be more flexible...for both the kids' & teachers' well-being.
True. But that would be a different issue...undiagnosed dyslexia perhaps (wasn't there a bill to require schools to test for that? Oh, I think it failed) or students actually slipping through the cracks. Honestly, I think it's just too many students for a teacher to handle - plus a new teacher each year doesn't help. If the same teacher taught the same kids for several years he/she would know the kids better, and be better able to assess the issues and have time to continue working with the kids. Probably part of the reason why microschools and home schools work better. I have heard of some schools (in Europe I think) having the same teacher for multiple years in elementary grades...maybe that would be something to try?
Thank you for providing some concrete ideas. 69% of the 8th students are below grade level in reading, so I wonder if it might be more than kids slipping through the cracks.
Oh wow! Yes, that is more than an "oops". Perhaps it simply has to do with the current culture - is reading really valued?
I would say it is not and has not been since I was in school (30 yrs ago). Who gets the letter jacket? The kids in sports. Where is the money spent? On sports. Perhaps that has changed on the surface - but I'll bet there are plenty of adults who left high school (or college) and were so glad to never "have" to read again. Or who only read because the "have" to for work... That attitude is passed on to the next generation.
I would also suggest that confining "learning" to only one building in life is also a detriment. Reading becomes a chore that is done because one is forced to do it. Just like parents who love the outdoors will end up with kids who also spend time outside. Some of my children read less as adults - but I have no concern that they view it as onerous, because my husband & I love to read and read to them for years until they could read on their own.
My point is: schools cannot generate a love of reading on their own. Perhaps creative teachers could find a way to include the parents while the kids are still young - that would be ideal. But since parents already have to so little time with their children after a 6-7 hour school day, they may not appreciate extra homework.
Thank you for the thoughtful response. I agree there are a lot of complexities. I am wondering if the key right now is for everyone to agree we have problems and to be comfortable moving outside the current model to fix them.
Perhaps they are afraid of an educated public? That they might not be able to hold onto their privilege and power if education were to return to teaching children to ask questions and test the answers? In truth we have seen a steady decline in the quality of public education for at least the last fifty years. Of the 15 years that I taught undergraduate college classes to adults at night, I often would introduce their paid for course with the comment that 80% of what they would learn, I learned in public high school. They were short changed and now need to pay for it.
South Dakota Voices Response: Stephen, thank you for your comment. The numbers show the performance has been poor for a long time. Would you be so kind as to share the graph showing the drop in performance?
Email comment from SW: "Your anger is misplaced. Literacy, math numbers starting going down significantly around 2013. At the same time anxiety, depression, suicide, self harm and obesity numbers went up and continue to rise. The correlation is that is the same year over 50% of the population got smart phones in their hands. Do better research and you'll see for yourself. "
There have been a number of threads about performance and costs comparisons. Rather than post this information in several places, I thought it might be helpful to include it here.
I think if people would quit whining about how much we are spending on education and spend what is needed we might see better results. We have about the lowest paid teachers in the US and have for many years. The legislature decided they needed to do something about it so they pushed video lottery and the proceeds would be spent on education. The public bought it hook-line-sinker. What did legislature do funded education a little more got teachers salaries up a couple points from the bottom. The gradually as video lottery money came in dedicated the agreed upon percent to education and reduced general funds from education and gradually teachers salaries sunk back to the bottom. So what do we decide to do increase sales tax and dedicate that to education the voters are ashamed we are at the bottom of teachers so voted for sales tax increase. Then teachers moved off the bottom a little bit for a while. Then our great legislature continue to put the designated sales tax towards education and took some general funds away from education. If you want to get your students to be at the top it might be a good idea to get your teachers towards the top! I am going to put this in big letters so you can read it WE ARE NOT OVER TAXED IN SOUTH DAKOTA so quit whining and it you want better education pay for it.
We pay around 64% of our property tax to the schools! How much more should we pay?! Who are you to say we are not over taxed? How about cleaning up the waste and flagrant spending we see going on first, then tell me we’re not over taxed. I point to the huge $77 million event center in Sioux Falls, or the multi million $ spots center being planned in Custer, just for starters. I could go on. It has to stop, people are losing their homes to taxes in my area!
Three thing are certain. Death, taxes. And whining about taxes. Taxes could be cut in half and there would still be whining about taxes being g too high.
I can list many spendings I don’t agree with including but may limited to 90 million to a new prison. However, how I say we are not over taxed in S.D. go out and compare it to other states. As far as education, it is up to us, do we want an educated population or are we aiming for an illiterate state? Personally I lean towards more educated. I might be considered old but I have learned the cheapest is VERY likely not the best. The old saying, you get what you pay for. And BTW you may pay 64% of property tax to education but your property tax is very reasonably compared to the rest of the world so quit complaining.
Wow, when I went to the website of the SD Bureau of Finance and Management to view the proposed Budget....I can only "view" it on "X"! WTF! So, now citizens can only view the budget on X and financially support the person we did not elect! The GOP/FOP has become Fascist in so many aspects! I agree with Christopher J. Patton that just maybe THEY are afraid of an educated public!
Thank you for putting up all the usuals that need to be contacted. Rep. May, prime sponsor of this bill made very good comments and I think Rep Scott Odenbach summed up the problem of where we're at on education in a way to understand the problem - and he talked about about an "across the board consistent approved avh in context of SD DOGE" pursuit in future. What usually happens is status quo wins - and that's what happened here, similar to SB 201 last year. What is going to happen, I predict, as the homeschool & Christian & Catholic school movement grows, there's going to be an initiative or referendum at some point to remove property taxes funding education - as many are just not being represented today. Florida is actually looking at a Constitutional amendment to end property taxes. Times are a changing...Status quo isn't working. Like Rep May said, they (the opponents on 1185, lobbyists) never try to offer to meet in the middle of any suggestions, they just oppose. That's a losing strategy going forward.
If not through property taxes, how do you pay for things? Our state constitution doesn't allow borrowing like the tax cutters in Washingto use to pay for things.
Baloney. Yes, some people are stretched thin. It's always been that way. For some It's because of bad choices. For others, it's bad luck through no fault of their own. Plenty of folks are doing just fine. I've lived in three states, all red, and taxes here are lowest by a sizeable margin. South Dakota homeowner property taxes are levied in a way that is very beneficial to higher value owner occupied homes. Groceries are fully subject to sales taxes, unlike most states. That's another way the overall tax burden is allocated onto lower income folks. Since most other revenue comes from sales tax, it's not surprising that lower income homeowners are having difficulty. The tax system in South Dakota is very friendly to higher income people. Defending schools is as stupid a tactic for improving student performance as defunding the police would be to reduce crime.
In SD there are two other choices for education: private school and Alternative Instruction. If school choice were allowed, some of the tax money collected to educate the students would simply be redirected to other modes of education. The entire population of students is still being taken care of.
To go with the police analogy: it would be like some of the dollars for the police force being redirected to Siouxland Merchant Patrol or some other agency and the public still being protected. (maybe not quite the same, because I'm guessing those businesses do not have all the same legal abilities to use deadly force...which is why I'm not sure the analogy works.)
In both examples though, the original system would be reduced in size, but it is possible to have the same outcome (education of all or protection of all) using different systems. The question is really the effectiveness of the systems...which is what people who want change are trying to discuss.
Perhaps people are just trying to be kind. They don't really want to pay for public schooling, because it isn't working for the majority of kids (80% below grade level is pretty ominous). However, they are willing to help pay for that model if people are willing to support their choices (that they are argue are better performing). In all cases people are working toward the same goal - to educate kids. I chose to use a blended approach with my children. Michelle wants her money to be allocated differently. Is there some reason having different opinions and different ways we want to allocate our money is such a bad thing?
A problem that I see with your use of NAEP is that you are interpreting a point decline as being significant. A drop of three or four points in a year would be a statistically significant drop, but a point or two drop is not statistically significant. In other words, it could be due to sampling error, rather than to a real drop. You don't want to see a steady decline over several years, but NAEP scores tend to bounce around. Partly it's because different students are taking the test every year.
Also, NAEP's categories do not refer to "up to grade level." That would have to be determined based on state or local testing.
Sadly, I think we have to face reality. Regardless of whether we are staying at the same level or seeing a slight drop, the performance is abysmal. Most of the kids are not at grade level in reading and math (between about 60% and about 80% are below grade level and it gets worse the longer they are in school -- the numbers with links are here https://southdakotavoices.substack.com/p/education-savings-accounts-a-way). In my opinion we need to stop staying siloed (this impacts people of everything political party and every faction within political parties), admit we have a problem, and start taking action to address it.
Yeah, I agree that reading and math instruction needs to be emphasized. There's problem with deciding what is at grade level, though. I know there are various rubrics that are used, but it's somewhat complicated. It comes down to is the student performing at the level of most students at grade X. And you have the question of how much below grade level are they? Is it a tiny bit, or a lot.
A math teacher once told me that math is learned at the end of a pencil. You've got to physically do it, so I wonder if calculators are a problem. On the other hand my interest in math declined with endless repetition of seemingly useless calculation. But I loved calculating batting averages, or yard per run average, and stuff that meant something.
While teaching methods and curriculum do not impact what should be considered grade level, they do impact how we need to get kids to grade level. Boys and girls brain configurations are different at birth. To maximize brain development (and learning), it is helpful to push both genders to master things that are challenging before puberty (in a balanced way). For example, girls brains generally find spatial tasks challenging. Spatial ability is helpful for math. If girls develop spatial abilities before puberty they have the brain connections necessary to excel in math. Boys find paperwork tasks more challenging and often act out when they are forced to do these tasks for long periods of time. Many teachers are female. Rather than forcing female teaching and learning methods most of the time, balance is helpful. That is why curricula like Singapore Math is so helpful. It uses a spiraling technique which allows longer periods of time to grasp concepts (introduce early and repeat often) which accommodates for normal developmental differences in gender. The problem is Algebra starts in kindergarten, so teachers have to have strong math skills.
I agree. When I worked in education we intentionally delayed calculator and computer use. The hand-brain connection is very important for learning (and building brain connections), especially before puberty. It is also important for kids to understand how things work before they use a machine to do the processing. Otherwise you don't know you have garbage in which will ensure you get garbage out. :)
👍, in contrast, I remember the documentary movie Stand & Deliver and the kids ( South Central LA kids) coming in on Sat am to learn higher level math skills from their teacher Jamie Escalante
Public education has been educating immigrant students since the beginning of public education in US. Our grandparents or great grandparents were immigrants. And to a previous comment funding is not a complete answer, agree but it does not hurt and having the lowest paid teachers in the country is also not the answer.
South Dakota Voices Response: Robert, thank you for joining the conversation.
Email comment from RF: "Thanks for naming them."
South Dakota Voices Response: Kurt, thank you for joining the conversation.
Email comment from KT: "JUST TEACH THE KIDS! IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT, OR DO YOU NEED A DOLLAR WAVED IN FRONT OF YOU TO DO IT?! NOW I CAN SEE WHY SOME HOME SCHOOL...LESS DRAMA. But what do I know."
Discipline!
It isn't the money.
It isn't the teachers.
It isn't the students.
It isn't even the families.
It is discipline.
I attended grade school in a very tough neighborhood where every social ill imaginable existed.
It happened to be a Catholic School where the Sisters of Charity ruled.
And I mean ruled.
There were many success stories, of which I am a minor example.
South Dakota Voices Response: Larry, thank you for joining the discussion and sharing your thoughts.
Email comment from LW: "Change we must, if legislators were Board of Directors for a Corporation that continued to spend $ and was loosing money (FAILURE), they would change or be OUT. Change the process !"
Obivously you are anti public school.
I am not sure how places that are hiring foreign workers are hiring becuase they could get them because of cheaap wages. I think it is because most Ssouth Dakota and the out of state people moving here will not do those jobs. Being a rural person, Ii am not seeing many locals and transplants wanting to work in the dairy barns, hog houses, poultry farms, slaughter houses. I am not sure somee if not most would work there if they made $53,277 to $57,503 averagee salary that teachers make in SD.
Until we become a country that limits how many children that minority population may have and the caucasian population decides to have big families again, whicch couldd happen in the next 44 years, even thhen we still will have to educate all children.
Noem pushed private education. Curious as to why? Her home school district is probalby 98% caucasian but there is a religious faction. Is that the reason? Or is that her family is considering selling to a 15,000 dairy heard that will need to hire those darn foreigners to work. Maybe it is the Cheese Plant that already employs those darn foreigners.
But the you keep saying many people want. What does the majority want? I am sure these legisllaators are hearing from them also.
Private schools tend to have parents that are more involved and also get to pick which kids they allow into their schools. They do not have to take ones with special needs, disciplinary problems or non English speakers. All these add more money to our public school system because it requires more staff to deal with these students. These children deserve to be taught so instead of continually trying to syphon money off to private schools (where they can pick out all the well behaved students with parents who care about their education) invest the money needed to have the proper staff required. Smaller class sizes would help. Volunteers that can go in and help read with kids that are struggling might help too. Lastly remember that parents are a child's first teacher and the more a parent can read to a young child the better they will learn. Also, if they can't read at a 3rd grade level by the time they are done with 3rd grade they either need to do summer school or repeat the grade. Teachers are always under pressure to keep passing kids onto the next day even though they can't pass the current grade standards. That's how we get kids graduating that can't read yet. Maybe more would buckle down and do their homework if they knew they could be held back.
I agree the problem with foreign workers (language and academic preparation) is real. If companies took care of all these costs like did earlier in the life of our country rather than trying to shift them to the taxpayer, many of the problems would go away. Do you think there should be legislation that makes companies pay these costs?
They've tried to get bills passed to allow kids to leave but they usually lobby against it and defeat them. SB 71 this year is probably going to pass, it allows 16 year olds to take the GED if they have no reasonable way of earningrequired credits, and it allows 17 year olds to leave school if consent by parent is received.
That would be very stupid.
I disagree with the comment about reading at a 3rd grade level by the end of 3rd grade. Some kids really do need more time! Most kids are only 8 or 9 years old at that point...I've heard stories of the ability to read not really "clicking" until 10 yrs or so. My point of reference is home education though, so you already have parents working with and invested in their child's success. Those kids are given the time they need to learn without being stigmatized or pressured. (although I'm sure the parents are stressed...it's hard to be patient with everyone breathing down your neck!) I wish the public school system could find a way to be more flexible...for both the kids' & teachers' well-being.
Sadly, they aren’t reading at grade level in grade eight either.
True. But that would be a different issue...undiagnosed dyslexia perhaps (wasn't there a bill to require schools to test for that? Oh, I think it failed) or students actually slipping through the cracks. Honestly, I think it's just too many students for a teacher to handle - plus a new teacher each year doesn't help. If the same teacher taught the same kids for several years he/she would know the kids better, and be better able to assess the issues and have time to continue working with the kids. Probably part of the reason why microschools and home schools work better. I have heard of some schools (in Europe I think) having the same teacher for multiple years in elementary grades...maybe that would be something to try?
Thank you for providing some concrete ideas. 69% of the 8th students are below grade level in reading, so I wonder if it might be more than kids slipping through the cracks.
Oh wow! Yes, that is more than an "oops". Perhaps it simply has to do with the current culture - is reading really valued?
I would say it is not and has not been since I was in school (30 yrs ago). Who gets the letter jacket? The kids in sports. Where is the money spent? On sports. Perhaps that has changed on the surface - but I'll bet there are plenty of adults who left high school (or college) and were so glad to never "have" to read again. Or who only read because the "have" to for work... That attitude is passed on to the next generation.
I would also suggest that confining "learning" to only one building in life is also a detriment. Reading becomes a chore that is done because one is forced to do it. Just like parents who love the outdoors will end up with kids who also spend time outside. Some of my children read less as adults - but I have no concern that they view it as onerous, because my husband & I love to read and read to them for years until they could read on their own.
My point is: schools cannot generate a love of reading on their own. Perhaps creative teachers could find a way to include the parents while the kids are still young - that would be ideal. But since parents already have to so little time with their children after a 6-7 hour school day, they may not appreciate extra homework.
Thank you for the thoughtful response. I agree there are a lot of complexities. I am wondering if the key right now is for everyone to agree we have problems and to be comfortable moving outside the current model to fix them.
Perhaps they are afraid of an educated public? That they might not be able to hold onto their privilege and power if education were to return to teaching children to ask questions and test the answers? In truth we have seen a steady decline in the quality of public education for at least the last fifty years. Of the 15 years that I taught undergraduate college classes to adults at night, I often would introduce their paid for course with the comment that 80% of what they would learn, I learned in public high school. They were short changed and now need to pay for it.
Thank you SD Voices
South Dakota Voices Response: Stephen, thank you for your comment. The numbers show the performance has been poor for a long time. Would you be so kind as to share the graph showing the drop in performance?
Email comment from SW: "Your anger is misplaced. Literacy, math numbers starting going down significantly around 2013. At the same time anxiety, depression, suicide, self harm and obesity numbers went up and continue to rise. The correlation is that is the same year over 50% of the population got smart phones in their hands. Do better research and you'll see for yourself. "
There have been a number of threads about performance and costs comparisons. Rather than post this information in several places, I thought it might be helpful to include it here.
Performance
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/pisa-scores-by-country
Interesting that some of the top performers have much less spending than we do.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/education-spending-by-country
South Dakota Voices Response: Brent, thank you for joining the conversation and the kind comment.
Email comment from BH: "Excellent column, well-written and reasoned, thank you."
I think if people would quit whining about how much we are spending on education and spend what is needed we might see better results. We have about the lowest paid teachers in the US and have for many years. The legislature decided they needed to do something about it so they pushed video lottery and the proceeds would be spent on education. The public bought it hook-line-sinker. What did legislature do funded education a little more got teachers salaries up a couple points from the bottom. The gradually as video lottery money came in dedicated the agreed upon percent to education and reduced general funds from education and gradually teachers salaries sunk back to the bottom. So what do we decide to do increase sales tax and dedicate that to education the voters are ashamed we are at the bottom of teachers so voted for sales tax increase. Then teachers moved off the bottom a little bit for a while. Then our great legislature continue to put the designated sales tax towards education and took some general funds away from education. If you want to get your students to be at the top it might be a good idea to get your teachers towards the top! I am going to put this in big letters so you can read it WE ARE NOT OVER TAXED IN SOUTH DAKOTA so quit whining and it you want better education pay for it.
We pay around 64% of our property tax to the schools! How much more should we pay?! Who are you to say we are not over taxed? How about cleaning up the waste and flagrant spending we see going on first, then tell me we’re not over taxed. I point to the huge $77 million event center in Sioux Falls, or the multi million $ spots center being planned in Custer, just for starters. I could go on. It has to stop, people are losing their homes to taxes in my area!
Three thing are certain. Death, taxes. And whining about taxes. Taxes could be cut in half and there would still be whining about taxes being g too high.
I can list many spendings I don’t agree with including but may limited to 90 million to a new prison. However, how I say we are not over taxed in S.D. go out and compare it to other states. As far as education, it is up to us, do we want an educated population or are we aiming for an illiterate state? Personally I lean towards more educated. I might be considered old but I have learned the cheapest is VERY likely not the best. The old saying, you get what you pay for. And BTW you may pay 64% of property tax to education but your property tax is very reasonably compared to the rest of the world so quit complaining.
Wow, when I went to the website of the SD Bureau of Finance and Management to view the proposed Budget....I can only "view" it on "X"! WTF! So, now citizens can only view the budget on X and financially support the person we did not elect! The GOP/FOP has become Fascist in so many aspects! I agree with Christopher J. Patton that just maybe THEY are afraid of an educated public!
Edward, thank you for catching the problem with the budget link. It has been repaired. You can see the state budget summary from any browser.
Thanks for letting me know....I like this site with respectful discussions!
Its defintely worth listening to the testimony of HB 1185 on House floor that was defeated. Here it is for those so inclined.
https://sdpb.sd.gov/sdpbpodcast/2025/hou21.mp3#t=12403
Thank you for putting up all the usuals that need to be contacted. Rep. May, prime sponsor of this bill made very good comments and I think Rep Scott Odenbach summed up the problem of where we're at on education in a way to understand the problem - and he talked about about an "across the board consistent approved avh in context of SD DOGE" pursuit in future. What usually happens is status quo wins - and that's what happened here, similar to SB 201 last year. What is going to happen, I predict, as the homeschool & Christian & Catholic school movement grows, there's going to be an initiative or referendum at some point to remove property taxes funding education - as many are just not being represented today. Florida is actually looking at a Constitutional amendment to end property taxes. Times are a changing...Status quo isn't working. Like Rep May said, they (the opponents on 1185, lobbyists) never try to offer to meet in the middle of any suggestions, they just oppose. That's a losing strategy going forward.
If not through property taxes, how do you pay for things? Our state constitution doesn't allow borrowing like the tax cutters in Washingto use to pay for things.
People are stretched thin. They can't afford more taxes.
Baloney. Yes, some people are stretched thin. It's always been that way. For some It's because of bad choices. For others, it's bad luck through no fault of their own. Plenty of folks are doing just fine. I've lived in three states, all red, and taxes here are lowest by a sizeable margin. South Dakota homeowner property taxes are levied in a way that is very beneficial to higher value owner occupied homes. Groceries are fully subject to sales taxes, unlike most states. That's another way the overall tax burden is allocated onto lower income folks. Since most other revenue comes from sales tax, it's not surprising that lower income homeowners are having difficulty. The tax system in South Dakota is very friendly to higher income people. Defending schools is as stupid a tactic for improving student performance as defunding the police would be to reduce crime.
In SD there are two other choices for education: private school and Alternative Instruction. If school choice were allowed, some of the tax money collected to educate the students would simply be redirected to other modes of education. The entire population of students is still being taken care of.
To go with the police analogy: it would be like some of the dollars for the police force being redirected to Siouxland Merchant Patrol or some other agency and the public still being protected. (maybe not quite the same, because I'm guessing those businesses do not have all the same legal abilities to use deadly force...which is why I'm not sure the analogy works.)
In both examples though, the original system would be reduced in size, but it is possible to have the same outcome (education of all or protection of all) using different systems. The question is really the effectiveness of the systems...which is what people who want change are trying to discuss.
School choice is allowed. Driving the vehicle of your choice is allowed. Just don't expect me and other taxpayers to pay for it.
Perhaps people are just trying to be kind. They don't really want to pay for public schooling, because it isn't working for the majority of kids (80% below grade level is pretty ominous). However, they are willing to help pay for that model if people are willing to support their choices (that they are argue are better performing). In all cases people are working toward the same goal - to educate kids. I chose to use a blended approach with my children. Michelle wants her money to be allocated differently. Is there some reason having different opinions and different ways we want to allocate our money is such a bad thing?
"Defunding schools..." not "Defending schools...". Spell check at work.
A problem that I see with your use of NAEP is that you are interpreting a point decline as being significant. A drop of three or four points in a year would be a statistically significant drop, but a point or two drop is not statistically significant. In other words, it could be due to sampling error, rather than to a real drop. You don't want to see a steady decline over several years, but NAEP scores tend to bounce around. Partly it's because different students are taking the test every year.
Also, NAEP's categories do not refer to "up to grade level." That would have to be determined based on state or local testing.
Sadly, I think we have to face reality. Regardless of whether we are staying at the same level or seeing a slight drop, the performance is abysmal. Most of the kids are not at grade level in reading and math (between about 60% and about 80% are below grade level and it gets worse the longer they are in school -- the numbers with links are here https://southdakotavoices.substack.com/p/education-savings-accounts-a-way). In my opinion we need to stop staying siloed (this impacts people of everything political party and every faction within political parties), admit we have a problem, and start taking action to address it.
Yeah, I agree that reading and math instruction needs to be emphasized. There's problem with deciding what is at grade level, though. I know there are various rubrics that are used, but it's somewhat complicated. It comes down to is the student performing at the level of most students at grade X. And you have the question of how much below grade level are they? Is it a tiny bit, or a lot.
A math teacher once told me that math is learned at the end of a pencil. You've got to physically do it, so I wonder if calculators are a problem. On the other hand my interest in math declined with endless repetition of seemingly useless calculation. But I loved calculating batting averages, or yard per run average, and stuff that meant something.
While teaching methods and curriculum do not impact what should be considered grade level, they do impact how we need to get kids to grade level. Boys and girls brain configurations are different at birth. To maximize brain development (and learning), it is helpful to push both genders to master things that are challenging before puberty (in a balanced way). For example, girls brains generally find spatial tasks challenging. Spatial ability is helpful for math. If girls develop spatial abilities before puberty they have the brain connections necessary to excel in math. Boys find paperwork tasks more challenging and often act out when they are forced to do these tasks for long periods of time. Many teachers are female. Rather than forcing female teaching and learning methods most of the time, balance is helpful. That is why curricula like Singapore Math is so helpful. It uses a spiraling technique which allows longer periods of time to grasp concepts (introduce early and repeat often) which accommodates for normal developmental differences in gender. The problem is Algebra starts in kindergarten, so teachers have to have strong math skills.
Yes, calculators absolutely are undermining basic math skills.
I agree. When I worked in education we intentionally delayed calculator and computer use. The hand-brain connection is very important for learning (and building brain connections), especially before puberty. It is also important for kids to understand how things work before they use a machine to do the processing. Otherwise you don't know you have garbage in which will ensure you get garbage out. :)
Larry (((Teuber))) isn’t bright enough to follow this, but for the rest of you….
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aUmcjbSHYq0&pp=ygUdc3R1cGlkIGluIGFtZXJpY2EgZG9jdW1lbnRhcnk%3D
👍, in contrast, I remember the documentary movie Stand & Deliver and the kids ( South Central LA kids) coming in on Sat am to learn higher level math skills from their teacher Jamie Escalante
“Is it because their corporate donors want to continue shifting the education costs (and childcare) for their foreign workers to the taxpayers?”
Going full Trump SFBs
Perhaps you could provide some data showing this is not the case.
Public education has been educating immigrant students since the beginning of public education in US. Our grandparents or great grandparents were immigrants. And to a previous comment funding is not a complete answer, agree but it does not hurt and having the lowest paid teachers in the country is also not the answer.
But Larry, UTCUTA. That’s much worse! And not healthy for you!