Stop the "economic development" pitch. If businesses want to come to SD great, but don't give away the store to get them. For Sioux Falls and the lust for the new convention center in the center of town, put it on the shelf. It is not a "need" when no one knows if we are headed to a recession period.
Who is giving away the store? What is wrong with giving enticements to businesses to build here? This is not a zero sum game for the evil business. Contrary to a lot of posts here businesses do not get money, they get tax breaks, big difference, also a big hate business lie. They do not just disappear with all the money stolen from the orphans. They do a thing called build, that makes construction jobs, and helps the tax base and if a form of paying back. They create their own jobs and increase the tax base, another form of paying back. They support secondary jobs like convenience stores, oil changes, resturants, hobby shops, malls and grocery stores. How is that bad? Get over it, businesses are not evil, they provide the jobs we need. So to say you do not want to entice businesses to come to SD is to say you are all for high unemployment. Then instead of helping a business that will pay back, it creates a dependency class that only gets bigger and takes a lot more in taxes than enticing businesses to come to SD.
Most people in the US and South Dakota agree that business is a good thing. They just want a level playing field. No special handouts for a few select businesses and no foreign worker programs that cause wage depression. Also, most people believe if some companies pay a tax, all companies should (that's fair). And if everyone is paying a tax, the load on everyone else wouldn't be so high (the taxes for everyone would be lower). The argument that taking other people's money to create more business is not considered sound (basic economics). In reality it just creates marketing anomalies and costs for the taxpayers and takes a lot of people down. A good and very visible example is the economic development that brought foreign-labor Walmart to communities and wiped out main street. Piles of people lost their jobs and main street became an eyesore. How was that good for anyone? If Walmart wants to come to an area and follow exactly the same rules and pay the same taxes and fees as everyone else (and not hire any foreign workers), I can't imagine anyone would be complaining.
That is utterly ridiculous! Public works on public property and my private property and someone else's private money have nothing, nothing in common. That makes no sense at all. It is as if you have never heard of town council meetings, public referendums, tolls, parking meters/fees. There is no big magical pot of money marked "free tax dollars for evil corporations". You do not seem to understand how government works any better than simple economics. No, graft and corruption are different topics.
So do you think the same of interstate highways? Bridges? Sewage treatment plants? Water works? Dams? Street lights? Parks? Sidewalks? Snow removal? Public boat ramps? Museums? Those were all built and maintained with taxes. That is how things work. Not everyone gets to use the benefits from them, but they are paid with tax money. I do not live near Sioux Falls but my sales taxes supports all those things also, in Sioux Falls and across the state. Those are all corporate welfare by your broad sweeping definitions. So next time you pull up to a street light remember to curse the corporate handout that put that street light where it is. Plus the road you are driving on, the storm sewers that channel water away, the lines in the street for lanes, the cross walk markings, the speed limit signs, you know just about everything used by the public. Since a public parking garage is corporate welfare, by your own definition so is every item I just listed plus more.
So we should just sit around and be stagnant while the rest of the country moves on? Sit on our collective thumbs while other states get new businesses that have lower taxes and have a pricing edge in competition? Stand by while SD businesses are run out of competition because some people think that getting out of the way of business is corporate welfare?
Did you know that the best way for evil, mean hideous race known as politicians to stay out of the way? Lower taxes. That includes incentives.
Here is a hint, after writing a post let it set of a couple hours then read it again. If it is contradicting itself then rewrite it.
Depends on your definition of ROI. I believe you mean Return On Investment. I already have explained it at least four times, you can try to create made up complications, but it is simple economics. But OK, Texas, Georgia and Florida all offered tax deferments for startup and move in companies and have massive influx of business=jobs=increased tax base. At the same time Illinois raised corporate taxes and then added several new IEPA rules that cut the profit in half and John Deere moved its corporate headquarters to Ireland that had no corporate tax base to draw in business. California is hemorrhaging businesses due to its insane taxes and regulations. Hollywood is loosing business to Georgia, England and Canada because of the tax and regulatory burdens. Don't you pay attention to what is going on in the world, or recent history? How can you write what you do with out knowing this? Only two reason I can think of , you are a socialist and are lying, or you really do not know economics. I do not need to give specific examples due to the fact that more jobs mean a larger tax base. Simple economics. (Larger = more) That works with everything. More rain, more forest. More chickens, more eggs. More cows, more milk. More tax base, more taxes. This is now the fifth time we have had this dance. I grew up in a school system that was no yet corrupted by the USDOE and economics was part of what we had to learn back then.
Let me put it this way. If you want less of something charge more. if you want more of something charge less. Wal-Mart has more sales because they charge less. Works the same for taxes. Lower taxes (as in incentives to move in) means more business=more jobs=more base. Real simple.
Now for the "area would have been developed . . .' Developed by who into what and with what money? Mostly with what money. Are you saying the laborers should work for free, slave style? Who does that these days? OH yeah, Communist China.
Now are you trying to say a parking ramp is nothing? You keep changing your story every time I prove you are a socialist.
Last, a construction contract is not a handout! Nobody works for free, except slaves in China, or is going to remove or build a multimillion dollar structure up just for the fun of it. Why do you keep trying to turn this into evil companies stealing from the orphanage? These comment sound like the evil CEO got a box car load of special tax money one day and a parking garage just magically appeared the next. Nothing works like that.
After all this, just answer one question. Why you think the construction workers should not be paid for all this development work they are doing? After all they have families to feed, mortgages to make, insurance to pay, why should they be expected to work for free?
I appreciate your viewpoint, but the focus is on the government in these calculations not the individual taxpayers. Even the best run governments are highly inefficient. This is why we talk about deadweight loss in economics and why it is always better from a financial perspective to allow taxpayers to make decisions on financial allocations (you avoid the deadweight loss). We are at full employment in SD now. It’s kind of like pushing on a string at this point.
You cannot separate the government from the tax payers. You are just adding complications that do not exist.
Dead weight loss??? What??? That is an economic term used to show an imbalance in supply and demand. It has nothing to do with taxes or or allowing the taxpayers to decide anything. You heard a term and though you run with it.
Wrong on the inefficient government also. The USA was so efficient we had so much money from tariffs we had to make things up to spend it on. It was not until the democrat Wilson signed the income tax bill that things started to go nuts.
You are talking about town counsels, City Managers, tax referendums, toll booths, parking meters.
Now all of the sudden we have full employment in SD? How can that be? You have been railing about foreigners taking jobs and undercutting wages for months. You cannot have it both ways.
Just because the unemployment rate in February 2025, according to SDUR, is 1.9% what is the problem with bringing in more jobs? More jobs increase the tax base. More jobs also add a buffer in case of another FJB administration. What is wrong with that?
If it wasn't for mass migration all blue collar union workers would be earning 50% more than they are today. And all those laid off union workers would have jobs right now.
Me thinks our mayor wants to pad his resume with "see what I have done" instead of curbing costs, especially regarding the River project. Motel/Hotel owners have difficulty filling rooms during off season so why should there be more built?
South Dakota Voices Response: Dewey, thank you for asking that question. It appears that there are many people like you. Have you considered joining a citizen's group that is working on this matter?
Email comment from DG: "Nicely explained. I agree. What can we do about it?"
OMG the companies wanting of open in SD and those offering incentives must be extremely stupid. According to SD Voice there are "0" employees available for new enterprises. How could they have not thought this through??? Again they must be really dumb. --- I think not --- SD Voice argument is wrong --- in my opinion they are just creating click bait ---
It is not the people of SD fault that every State has economic development funds available to attract business. SD has a choice offer incentives or do nothing. Those who practice class envy believe incentives are a scam. I disagree. If in fact a scam exists and can be proven there are ways to address the injustice. If only rhetoric is offered instead of proof it’s not worth the energy to hear it. If what you are saying or implying is true make a fact based claim and follow up on it. SD can’t pretend they don’t need to compete for business. Doing so will hurt the citizens. Also SD has only a few incentives available compared to more populous states and what is worse some people want these SD incentives discontinued. I wish no state offered incentives but that is not the real world. Inciting arguments without proof is not good for SD. IF YOUR ARGUMENT IS REAL PROVE IT. I will back you up. I detest scams. If you can’t make a documented real argument don’t create click bait by inciting your neighbors.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and voicing your concern. I believe all of your questions are addressed in the links of the post. When you are at "full" employment, like we are, the only answer is to do nothing otherwise you are making your citizens worse off. We should not be doing any economic development now, because it is hurting our citizens.
Make those in government accountable for the tax breaks and incentives they offer, I have yet to see any that have a net positive income, return on investment to the tax payers. Political hubris and ego drive so much of this development we get stuck paying for while the mayor gets his ego boosted.
We don't care for visiting Sioux Falls, not as much as we did 6-7 years ago. Sioux Falls feels more like I'm visiting Minneapolis 15 yrs. ago, look what a dump it is now.
Consider a business such as Mileage Plus, United Airlines' frequent flyer plan. They have customer service agents employed in Rapid City, but also in other places. The company serves people in Europe and Asia, so they need workers who can speak various foreign languages, as well as English. Any company that serves the globe is going to be constrained without people who can speak various languages. The School of Mines and Technology draws a number of professors and graduate students from overseas, and their families usually follow with them. Some of the spouses of these profs and grad students need jobs.
When my wife worked there she was friends with a young lady from France, who was called on the address the customer needs of French-speaking people. She also spoke English with a very cute accent, and the male customers loved talking with her. Sometimes it can be hard to understand some English-speaking foreigners, and that can be frustrating to people. But I love hearing all these languages. It's very American to hear a lot of different languages spoken. Most will eventually master English, and their kids have that first generation American drive that will allow them to go on to be your kids' boss. That's the American way.
Stop the "economic development" pitch. If businesses want to come to SD great, but don't give away the store to get them. For Sioux Falls and the lust for the new convention center in the center of town, put it on the shelf. It is not a "need" when no one knows if we are headed to a recession period.
Who is giving away the store? What is wrong with giving enticements to businesses to build here? This is not a zero sum game for the evil business. Contrary to a lot of posts here businesses do not get money, they get tax breaks, big difference, also a big hate business lie. They do not just disappear with all the money stolen from the orphans. They do a thing called build, that makes construction jobs, and helps the tax base and if a form of paying back. They create their own jobs and increase the tax base, another form of paying back. They support secondary jobs like convenience stores, oil changes, resturants, hobby shops, malls and grocery stores. How is that bad? Get over it, businesses are not evil, they provide the jobs we need. So to say you do not want to entice businesses to come to SD is to say you are all for high unemployment. Then instead of helping a business that will pay back, it creates a dependency class that only gets bigger and takes a lot more in taxes than enticing businesses to come to SD.
Most people in the US and South Dakota agree that business is a good thing. They just want a level playing field. No special handouts for a few select businesses and no foreign worker programs that cause wage depression. Also, most people believe if some companies pay a tax, all companies should (that's fair). And if everyone is paying a tax, the load on everyone else wouldn't be so high (the taxes for everyone would be lower). The argument that taking other people's money to create more business is not considered sound (basic economics). In reality it just creates marketing anomalies and costs for the taxpayers and takes a lot of people down. A good and very visible example is the economic development that brought foreign-labor Walmart to communities and wiped out main street. Piles of people lost their jobs and main street became an eyesore. How was that good for anyone? If Walmart wants to come to an area and follow exactly the same rules and pay the same taxes and fees as everyone else (and not hire any foreign workers), I can't imagine anyone would be complaining.
Without naming incentives for businesses to come in, or stay. Without naming construction contracts. What is a special hand out to you?
Things are literally paid with tax payer dollars. That would be the same as your neighbor paying for your garage.
That is utterly ridiculous! Public works on public property and my private property and someone else's private money have nothing, nothing in common. That makes no sense at all. It is as if you have never heard of town council meetings, public referendums, tolls, parking meters/fees. There is no big magical pot of money marked "free tax dollars for evil corporations". You do not seem to understand how government works any better than simple economics. No, graft and corruption are different topics.
So do you think the same of interstate highways? Bridges? Sewage treatment plants? Water works? Dams? Street lights? Parks? Sidewalks? Snow removal? Public boat ramps? Museums? Those were all built and maintained with taxes. That is how things work. Not everyone gets to use the benefits from them, but they are paid with tax money. I do not live near Sioux Falls but my sales taxes supports all those things also, in Sioux Falls and across the state. Those are all corporate welfare by your broad sweeping definitions. So next time you pull up to a street light remember to curse the corporate handout that put that street light where it is. Plus the road you are driving on, the storm sewers that channel water away, the lines in the street for lanes, the cross walk markings, the speed limit signs, you know just about everything used by the public. Since a public parking garage is corporate welfare, by your own definition so is every item I just listed plus more.
We are already at record low unemployment here! What do you fail to understand?
When was the last time that Sioux Falls had high unemployment?
There might be places in SD that need help to entice jobs in their area. Sioux Falls and Rapid City DO NOT need government help to create jobs.
The free market works just fine when power hungry politicians stay out of it.
So we should just sit around and be stagnant while the rest of the country moves on? Sit on our collective thumbs while other states get new businesses that have lower taxes and have a pricing edge in competition? Stand by while SD businesses are run out of competition because some people think that getting out of the way of business is corporate welfare?
Did you know that the best way for evil, mean hideous race known as politicians to stay out of the way? Lower taxes. That includes incentives.
Here is a hint, after writing a post let it set of a couple hours then read it again. If it is contradicting itself then rewrite it.
Give some examples whereby the cost to taxpayers show a ROI?
In downtown Sioux Falls the taxpayers do not appear to have received anything. That area would have developed without any taxpayer handouts.
Depends on your definition of ROI. I believe you mean Return On Investment. I already have explained it at least four times, you can try to create made up complications, but it is simple economics. But OK, Texas, Georgia and Florida all offered tax deferments for startup and move in companies and have massive influx of business=jobs=increased tax base. At the same time Illinois raised corporate taxes and then added several new IEPA rules that cut the profit in half and John Deere moved its corporate headquarters to Ireland that had no corporate tax base to draw in business. California is hemorrhaging businesses due to its insane taxes and regulations. Hollywood is loosing business to Georgia, England and Canada because of the tax and regulatory burdens. Don't you pay attention to what is going on in the world, or recent history? How can you write what you do with out knowing this? Only two reason I can think of , you are a socialist and are lying, or you really do not know economics. I do not need to give specific examples due to the fact that more jobs mean a larger tax base. Simple economics. (Larger = more) That works with everything. More rain, more forest. More chickens, more eggs. More cows, more milk. More tax base, more taxes. This is now the fifth time we have had this dance. I grew up in a school system that was no yet corrupted by the USDOE and economics was part of what we had to learn back then.
Let me put it this way. If you want less of something charge more. if you want more of something charge less. Wal-Mart has more sales because they charge less. Works the same for taxes. Lower taxes (as in incentives to move in) means more business=more jobs=more base. Real simple.
Now for the "area would have been developed . . .' Developed by who into what and with what money? Mostly with what money. Are you saying the laborers should work for free, slave style? Who does that these days? OH yeah, Communist China.
Now are you trying to say a parking ramp is nothing? You keep changing your story every time I prove you are a socialist.
Last, a construction contract is not a handout! Nobody works for free, except slaves in China, or is going to remove or build a multimillion dollar structure up just for the fun of it. Why do you keep trying to turn this into evil companies stealing from the orphanage? These comment sound like the evil CEO got a box car load of special tax money one day and a parking garage just magically appeared the next. Nothing works like that.
After all this, just answer one question. Why you think the construction workers should not be paid for all this development work they are doing? After all they have families to feed, mortgages to make, insurance to pay, why should they be expected to work for free?
I appreciate your viewpoint, but the focus is on the government in these calculations not the individual taxpayers. Even the best run governments are highly inefficient. This is why we talk about deadweight loss in economics and why it is always better from a financial perspective to allow taxpayers to make decisions on financial allocations (you avoid the deadweight loss). We are at full employment in SD now. It’s kind of like pushing on a string at this point.
You cannot separate the government from the tax payers. You are just adding complications that do not exist.
Dead weight loss??? What??? That is an economic term used to show an imbalance in supply and demand. It has nothing to do with taxes or or allowing the taxpayers to decide anything. You heard a term and though you run with it.
Wrong on the inefficient government also. The USA was so efficient we had so much money from tariffs we had to make things up to spend it on. It was not until the democrat Wilson signed the income tax bill that things started to go nuts.
You are talking about town counsels, City Managers, tax referendums, toll booths, parking meters.
Now all of the sudden we have full employment in SD? How can that be? You have been railing about foreigners taking jobs and undercutting wages for months. You cannot have it both ways.
Just because the unemployment rate in February 2025, according to SDUR, is 1.9% what is the problem with bringing in more jobs? More jobs increase the tax base. More jobs also add a buffer in case of another FJB administration. What is wrong with that?
If it wasn't for mass migration all blue collar union workers would be earning 50% more than they are today. And all those laid off union workers would have jobs right now.
It's funny how govt people always view tax revenue as "their money"
Me thinks our mayor wants to pad his resume with "see what I have done" instead of curbing costs, especially regarding the River project. Motel/Hotel owners have difficulty filling rooms during off season so why should there be more built?
South Dakota Voices Response: Dewey, thank you for asking that question. It appears that there are many people like you. Have you considered joining a citizen's group that is working on this matter?
Email comment from DG: "Nicely explained. I agree. What can we do about it?"
I agree so very much. People aren’t opening their eyes to exactly what happens as your information indicates in your excellent article ‼️‼️‼️‼️
Thank you for your post.
OMG the companies wanting of open in SD and those offering incentives must be extremely stupid. According to SD Voice there are "0" employees available for new enterprises. How could they have not thought this through??? Again they must be really dumb. --- I think not --- SD Voice argument is wrong --- in my opinion they are just creating click bait ---
Have you clicked on the links? It looks like all the data is there.
It is not the people of SD fault that every State has economic development funds available to attract business. SD has a choice offer incentives or do nothing. Those who practice class envy believe incentives are a scam. I disagree. If in fact a scam exists and can be proven there are ways to address the injustice. If only rhetoric is offered instead of proof it’s not worth the energy to hear it. If what you are saying or implying is true make a fact based claim and follow up on it. SD can’t pretend they don’t need to compete for business. Doing so will hurt the citizens. Also SD has only a few incentives available compared to more populous states and what is worse some people want these SD incentives discontinued. I wish no state offered incentives but that is not the real world. Inciting arguments without proof is not good for SD. IF YOUR ARGUMENT IS REAL PROVE IT. I will back you up. I detest scams. If you can’t make a documented real argument don’t create click bait by inciting your neighbors.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and voicing your concern. I believe all of your questions are addressed in the links of the post. When you are at "full" employment, like we are, the only answer is to do nothing otherwise you are making your citizens worse off. We should not be doing any economic development now, because it is hurting our citizens.
Make those in government accountable for the tax breaks and incentives they offer, I have yet to see any that have a net positive income, return on investment to the tax payers. Political hubris and ego drive so much of this development we get stuck paying for while the mayor gets his ego boosted.
We don't care for visiting Sioux Falls, not as much as we did 6-7 years ago. Sioux Falls feels more like I'm visiting Minneapolis 15 yrs. ago, look what a dump it is now.
Consider a business such as Mileage Plus, United Airlines' frequent flyer plan. They have customer service agents employed in Rapid City, but also in other places. The company serves people in Europe and Asia, so they need workers who can speak various foreign languages, as well as English. Any company that serves the globe is going to be constrained without people who can speak various languages. The School of Mines and Technology draws a number of professors and graduate students from overseas, and their families usually follow with them. Some of the spouses of these profs and grad students need jobs.
When my wife worked there she was friends with a young lady from France, who was called on the address the customer needs of French-speaking people. She also spoke English with a very cute accent, and the male customers loved talking with her. Sometimes it can be hard to understand some English-speaking foreigners, and that can be frustrating to people. But I love hearing all these languages. It's very American to hear a lot of different languages spoken. Most will eventually master English, and their kids have that first generation American drive that will allow them to go on to be your kids' boss. That's the American way.